Airbus A380

Hong Kong Airlines is the undisclosed customer that signed orders for 15 Boeing 747-8I passenger jets. The deal was announced by Boeing during the Paris air show as one of two orders from undisclosed clients.
Although neither Boeing nor Hong Kong Airlines will confirm the deal, sources told Flightglobal that the carrier, which is owned by HNA Group of China, is the identity of the customer.

"I cannot confirm that with you right now," Yang Jian Hong, president of Hong Kong Airlines told Flightglobal.
Also, the airline's Hong Kong-based spokeswoman said she cannot confirm if the airline had ordered the aircraft, she said she's still awaiting information from Hainan.
Hong Kong Airlines is also expected to announce orders for Airbus A380s at the show.

Skymark Airlines, Japan’s third largest and fast growing airline, placed firm orders with Airbus for two more A380 aircraft. This latest purchase agreement brings the total number of A380s ordered by Skymark to six aircraft. The Japanese carrier plans to start operations with the A380 on international routes linking Narita to destinations in Europe and the U.S.

The contract was signed on Thursday, 23^rd June, at the Paris Air Show, in the presence of Skymark Airlines President, Shinichi Nishikubo, Airbus President and CEO, Tom Enders, and Airbus Chief Operating Officer Customers, John Leahy, together with Airbus Japan CEO, Stephane Ginoux.

At the signing ceremony Shinichi Nishikubo said, “The A380 is a remarkable aircraft, setting new standards in air travel, and giving us strong competitive advantages in the international market. Therefore, we have decided to increase the firm order to six aircraft. We are extremely happy to become the very first Japanese airline to offer our passengers a unique and new experience of flying with the A380.”

“We appreciate the strong and renewed vote of confidence from our first Japanese A380 airline customer,” said Tom Enders. “Thanks to its fleet of six A380s, Skymark will benefit from significantly reduced operating costs and leading environmental performance while offering its passengers the highest levels of comfort. The airline will be extremely well positioned to grow as an international carrier.”

The A380 is the most advanced, spacious and eco-efficient airliner in service today. Over 12 million passengers have already enjoyed the unique experience of flying on board the all-new aircraft. The in-service fleet has accumulated by now almost 300,000 revenue flight hours in nearly 33,000 commercial flights. Today, Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, Air France, and Korean Air operate the aircraft on daily services to Narita Airport.

Following today's announcement, total firm orders for the A380 stand at 236 from 18 customers worldwide and 51 aircraft have been delivered to six customers.

Japan's Skymark Airlines has amended its agreement for Airbus A380s, exercising options for another two of the type.
Skymark ordered four A380s earlier this year.
Speaking during an event at the show, Skymark president Shinichi Nishikubo said the A380 gave the airline "strong competitive advantages" in the international market.
Airbus chief operating officer for customers John Leahy said the follow-on deal took Skymark's backlog of A380s to six.

Airbus has disclosed that it has signed a tentative agreement for 10 A380s with an undisclosed customer.
The airframer said the agreement amounted to a memorandum of understanding for the double-deck type, and that it was potentially worth $3.75 billion at list prices.

Chief operating officer for customers John Leahy said Airbus would not normally mention an undisclosed customer but had been prompted by Boeing's similar announcement of an undisclosed order for 15 Boeing 747-8s.
"It might be the same customer," he said.
Sources have told Flightglobal that Hong Kong Airlines is the carrier behind the 747-8 passenger aircraft deal.

• la véritable vedette du Salon du Bourget , 2011, allait être Le Salon lui-même, et l'Opération NEO ;
  
• sa contribution a cette opération allait être pâle d'insignifiance, par rapport à celle de Tony FERNANDES / Air Asia;
  
• même sa commande d'Airbus A380 risquerait de passer quasiment inaperçue (alors, ... pourquoi passer des commandes officielles, fermes, ..... & / ou faire des annonces, et donner des signatures ? ) ;
  
• 
  


• la seule manière de faire parler du tandem Al BAKER / Qatar, fut d'avoir et d'exécuter un 'plan B', .... de montrer un mécontentement, tant contre Boeing que contre sa cible principale, Airbus, notamment au titre d' l'A350-XWB (mais, en outre, vous vous rendez compte : attacher plus d'importance à une opération d'option de remotorisation , du revamping d'un airframe, vieux de plus de 30 ans, dans sa conception, plutôt que de mettre sur le piédestal en haut du podium, une commande colossale pour un petit mais agréable et respectable Emirat........, du "Flagship" A380 d'Airbus ? ), d'être négatif et désagréable, et de dire des choses désagréables, .... interprétables comme des menaces ! :|
  

• il a besoin d'A380 ;
  
• il a besoin de l'A350-XWB, y compris les -800 et -1000, même dans leurs configuration actuelles, ..... et qu'il devrait, en tant que "launch and lead customer", collaborer étroitement avec Airbus et RR sur les aspects importants, qu'il aimerait voir incorporer dans la définition finale des -800 & -1000 ;
  
• il devrait essayer de faire en sorte que les 'nouvelles dates EIS' mentionnées soient moins éloignées dans le temps ;
  
• ...............................
  
• il n'au aucun, ... aucun .... besoin réel d'A320 NEO aujourd'hui,
  
• il pourrait avoir un réel et sérieux besoin vers 2019 / 2020 d'aun avion du type NSA / B797 (d'où ses commentaires désagréables à l'encontre de Boeing et de la Direction / le Management de cet airframer, .....) ;
  
• il pourrait avoir besoin, pour une niche, d'un avion du genre du CSeries, ... mais que l'offre du GTF de P&W est, et sera pendant longtemps, inacceptable, pour les raisons que nous connaissons !
  

China holds up Airbus order on EU CO2 row: report

China is holding up a multi-billion euro aircraft order, placed with Airbus by Hong Kong Airlines, in protest at European Union plans to extend carbon dioxide emissions trading to air traffic, a German newspaper reported.

said on Friday the order was initially slated to be signed on Tuesday during German-Chinese top-level government consultations in Berlin, citing industry sources.
Airbus parent EADS and Hong Kong Airlines declined to comment on the matter.
An industry source had told Reuters on Thursday that Hong Kong Airlines, which said last week it would announce orders at the Paris Air Show, placed a firm order for 10 Airbus A380 superjumbos worth $3.8 billion at list prices.
The European planemaker confirmed the deal but did not disclose who the customer was.
From January 2012, the EU will require airlines flying to Europe to be included in the emissions trading scheme (ETS), a system that forces polluters to buy permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain cap.
Airlines from around the world have attacked the EU over the plan, with some warning of the danger of a trade war and airlines from poorer nations saying they would pay a high price.
Chinese airlines in May joined U.S. rivals in voicing strong opposition to their inclusion in the EU's carbon emissions market from 2012.
Beijing's aviation authority said the EU move will cost Chinese airlines 800 million yuan ($124 million) in the first year and more than triple that by 2020.

747-8 Issues Boost A380 Fuel Burn Edge, Airbus Argues

The Paris air show has been more of a success for Boeing's 747-8 which made its Le Bourget debut. Airbus's A380 on the other hand suffered an embarrassing ground handling incident. Boeing also has secured 19 orders for its big transport and Airbus has secured 12.

But Airbus officials shrug off those issues and instead argue that programmatic developments on their rival's product actually bolsters the case for the A380. Rather than delivering an 8% per-seat fuel burn advantage over the 747-8I, the A380 now delivers a 11-15% edge because of weight and fuel consumption issues on the Boeing aircraft, argues Richard Carcaillet, head of product marketing at Airbus.

He argues that airlines using the A380, even though they add capacity into a market when they add the mega-transport, are seeing yields increase, rather than drop as they normally tend to, underscoring the business proposition of the aircraft.

China has blocked a multi-billion dollar order for 10 Airbus superjumbo aircraft in a sharp escalation of Beijing’s protests against Europe’s plan to bring international airlines into its emissions trading scheme from the start of next year.

A Hong Kong Airlines order for the planes worth $3.8bn at list prices was due to be formally announced at the Paris air show earlier this week, according to industry executives familiar with the deal.
But Airbus, a division of the European aerospace group, [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien], learned over the weekend that the agreement was being blocked by Beijing and the announcement did not go ahead, the sources said.
“These are not the only orders taken hostage by the Chinese. The A380s are the first,” said one executive, adding there were other Airbus deals with Chinese carriers in the pipeline.

China and the United States have expressed opposition to the European Union’s move to make all airlines flying into Europe pay for their pollution, the most ambitious step yet by Brussels to make the rest of the world comply with its climate change rules.

.......China’s action is the most dramatic sign of retaliation against the measure. It is not expected to have any immediate effect on Airbus’s production rates. The manufacturer [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] from airlines around the world at the Paris air show.
But it may embolden other countries to consider action against the European trading scheme. Airbus declined to comment.

Tom Enders, Airbus chief executive, [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] with European airlines recently to the EU climate commissioner, Connie Hedegaard, to warn that it was “madness to risk retaliation” from such influential players as China over the issue.
Ms Hedegaard and José Manuel Barroso, the European Commission president, have both made it clear Brussels has no intention of caving in to such threats.

To do so would set a worrying precedent, said Ms Hedegaard, because “it is up to the Europeans to decide European legislation”.
Until now, large polluters based in Europe such as power companies and cement factories have been covered by the emissions trading scheme the EU launched in 2005.
The scheme forces companies to pay for permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain level or cap.
It was agreed several years ago, after much debate, that airlines would be brought into the scheme from January 2012.
A lawsuit brought by US airlines that challenges the legality of the scheme is to be heard in the European Court of Justice on July 5.

The US administration [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] to EU officials at an aviation meeting in Oslo earlier this week, but there was no talk of retaliation and any further move by the US is not expected until the outcome of the airlines’ court case is known.
A judgement is not expected for some months.

Le PDG de la compagnie de Doha se déclare déçu des retards annoncés par les constructeurs en particulier par Airbus pour l'A350 XWB.

On attendait que Qatar Airways dévoile une commande géante d'Airbus le jour d'inauguration du Bourget. Finalement, la compagnie du Golfe s'est contentée d'une nouvelle commande de six Boeing 777 pour un montant total de 1,7 milliard de dollars.

Interrogé sur ce contretemps, Akbar Al Baker, le PDG de Qatar Airways, a souligné hier qu'il était toujours en discussions avec Airbus et que la nouvelle commande n'était pas finalisée. «Nous négocions encore les conditions d'achat d'A320 Neo et de nouveaux A380. L'annonce aura lieu plus tard, peut être même après le salon du Bourget», a déclaré le PDG de Qatar Airways dont la flotte actuelle compte 98 appareils dont seulement 25 Boeing.

Akbar Al Baker s'est dit extrêmement déçu des retards annoncés par les constructeurs sur leurs programmes et en particulier sur la livraison des A350 XWB. «Nous avons besoin d'avoir une vision d'ensemble pour décider de nos achats d'appareils et à cause de ces retards, franchement, nous n'avons plus confiance».
Le dirigeant de la compagnie du Qatar n'a pas caché qu'il s'intéressait de près aux programmes des constructeurs russes et chinois «basés sur les technologies occidentales».

BRUSSELS (AFP) – The EU refused Saturday to back down on a planned pollution tax on airline companies after reports China has put an Airbus order on ice and growing discontent in the United States.

Expectations that Hong Kong Airlines would announce a contract to buy billions of euros worth of Airbus aircraft failed to materialise this week at the Paris air show, prompting fears Beijing may have blocked the order.
A source close to the matter who asked not to be identified told AFP he was aware of "the possibility that China could put the deal on ice."
He said it is well known that "the Chinese government is very unhappy" about legislation bringing airlines operating in Europe into the EU's emissions trading system.
That comes as US companies fine-tune their legal challenge to the European Union in a Luxembourg court -- a hearing is set for July 5 -- and follows concerns expressed this month by Airbus.

Isaac Valero Ladron, spokesman for EU climate action commissioner Connie Hedegaard, said the row has resurfaced because companies are looking at the award in September of emissions allowances post-2012 based on past pollution data forcing airlines to pay for their pollution.

"I cannot comment on internal dealings between Chinese authorities and companies," the spokesman said, indicating that the European Commission anticipated political pressure from Beijing over commercial plane-buying decisions.
"Whatever the Chinese or the Americans are saying, there is no Plan B -- we don't intend to back down," he said.
The legislation, adopted in 2008, is to enter into force on January 1, 2012.

Based on figures from 2004-6, companies get a set emissions allowance and then bid to buy the remaining 15 percent of the available polluting rights -- the equivalent of 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide annually.
The spokesman said "the only other possibility open to the Chinese or the Americans" is a provision to exempt companies where their countries have implemented "equivalent measures" to reduce carbon emissions.

He added that Airbus planes are considered "fuel-efficient, meaning lower emissions."
China earlier this year announced reductions in its emissions targeted for 2020, which is "something we're analysing," the commission spokesman said.
While the commission is "confident" its case will stand up in court, Chinese airlines have also indicated they plan to lodge legal action alongside the China Air Transport Association.

They fear the country's aviation sector will have to pay an additional 800 million yuan ($122 million) a year on flights originating or landing in Europe, and that the cost could be almost four times higher by 2020

China downgraded the announcement of an Airbus superjumbo order and signed up for the Boeing 747-8 as deals worth USD$9 billion coincided with a row over European emissions trading rules, industry sources said.

The deals both involved parts of the HNA airlines group and had been planned before the Paris Air Show, they said, but the decision not to announce the names of the buyers triggered one of the mysteries of this week's event.
Industry sources said plans to announce a high-profile USD$3.8 billion deal between Airbus and Hong Kong Airlines for 10 A380 superjumbos were called off on Thursday because of China's anger over European plans to charge airlines for emissions.

China threatened last month to hold back on purchasing Airbus aircraft because of the EU emissions trading scheme, which airlines body IATA has called illegal.
Additionally, industry sources said a company affiliated to the same carrier, Hainan Airlines, was behind the unexpected announcement of an bababa deal at Boeing this week.

Boeing said an unidentified airline had provisionally committed to 15 747-8 passenger jets worth USD$4.8 billion.
Airlines often choose to buy airliners without identifying themselves to their competition, but such announcements are rarely made at air shows which are designed for publicity.

Boeing also rarely announces deals before they are confirmed.
Airbus and Boeing declined to comment and representatives of the HNA Group were not available.
Hong Kong Airlines is 46 percent owned by HNA Group, the parent of Hainan Airlines.

TEMPTING TARGET

Airbus and Boeing both brought their largest passenger jets to the show, a biennial event which rotates with the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.
The 747-8 with 467 seats is Boeing's first stretched version of the 747 and is in the midst of flight testing. It will enter service initially as a freighter, then in a passenger version.

The 525-seat A380 is the world's largest airliner and Europe's most high-profile aircraft since Concorde, making it a tempting target in any political tensions affecting aerospace.

The Airbus deal has not itself been blocked and is in the manufacturer's order book, but the decision to cancel a signing ceremony is a clear protest signal, the industry sources said.

Aircraft purchases also need Chinese government approval.

The 747-8 purchase followed competition between Airbus and Boeing for the Hong Kong Airlines order.
While advancing development of its own smaller plane, China tends to balance orders between the two foreign suppliers.

From January 1 next year, the EU will require all airlines flying to Europe to be included in the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), a system that compels polluters to buy permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain cap.
China's top aviation industry body ramped up pressure on the European Union earlier this month, saying it would give full support to legal action against the forced entry of airlines into the EU's carbon trading scheme.
China says the scheme is unfair for developing countries and costly.

(Reuters)

Jeannot a écrit:Oui vous avez raison c'est très politique et je ne connais pas le dossier. Par contre je me permets simplement de souligner que le fait de pénaliser une entreprise pour une décision de l'UE n'est pas la bonne solution et surtout ouvre la porte à toute espèce d'abus. C'est même révoltant !

Il doit exister d'autres moyens de faire faire machine arrière à l'UE sur ce sujet ou du moins de porter la question devant une cour appropriée.

• une exemption / exoneration n'est pas possible ;
  
• la Chine, et d'autres pays s'attendraient à un geste ;
  
• ce geste pourrait consister, par exemple, en un mécanisme de montée progressive étalée sur 5 ans vers le taux de "taxation" / "contribution" visé (5% du taux visé, pour la première année, 25% dudit taux pour l'année no. 2, pour, de 50% dudit taux pour l'année 3, 75% pour l'année 4 et 100% dudit taux pour l'année 5.
  

• "revamping" du "cash cow" ;
  
• investissement pas trop coûteux (payé pour la majeur partie par les motoristes eux-mêmes, équipementiers et FRSP, ce qui protège les ressources en trésorerie d'Airbus) ;
  
• "splash" de marketing exagéré ; de l'hyperbole 'à go-go' (les "business lies" ... on s'en moque, dirait-on ; cette fois-ci ça passera ; le but est de 'faire vite du cash' ; dans l'immédiat, ... les NEO , ...... au-delà des prises de commande, on s'en moque !) ; '
  
• prise rapide de commandes, au Salon du Bourget, dont certaines commandes colossales ou substantielles, dites 'fermes', auprès de clients bourrés de trésorerie, ou ayant des accès faciles et rapides à de gros volumes de "cash" -- par exemple, Qatar --, afin de récolter des "deposits", qui seront mis de côté, non pas pour les appareils NEO (mais non , surtout pas , on ne fait pas ces avions-là tout de suite ; on fait de la finance , ... pour bien lancer l'A350-XWB, en ralentissant un peu le programme, afin de peaufiner -- de nouveau -- la variante -800, et de donner une satisfaction partielle à ceux qui ont commencé à voir le potentiel superbe de l'A350-XWB-1000, ..... à condition de muscler un peu celui-ci ...) ;
  
• possibilités de recompenser les clients qui aident Airbus à "faire de la finance" ; la plupart des Cies. qui commandent, ou qui prennent des engagements fermes sur, .... les NEO, sont des clients actuels ou potentiels des A350-XWB ; plus tard, Airbus pourra leur faire quasiment cadeau 'd'un ou deux' exemplaires d'A350-XWB, dans la variante de leur préférence (si le risque d'avoir à raccourcir la vie de l'opération NEO se cristallise, il y aura largement des possibilités pour 'compenser' ceux qui risquent d'avoir des 'avions orphelins' sur les bras ; et les motoristes auront, tout de même 'l'AfterMarket' de la base installée) ;
  
• un peu de temps à passer sur des dossiers "sensibles" dans ce type de contexte (celui de Qatar, par exemple), où les enjeux et aspects 'clé' sont plutôt multi-facette et complèxes, ... et de taille ;
  
• 
  
• pour ce qui est du Carnet de Commandes en Mains / "Order Backlog" des versions "Legacy" (& /ou à recevoir encore), accélérer les production, livraisons, facturations et rentrées des sommes dues par les clients concernés ;
  
• par là, augmentation de la masse de la trésorerie d'Airbus, qui viendra s'ajouter aux "sommes fraîches" représentées par les "deposits NEO" précités (ceci permettra de combler quelques trous dans les programmes tels que l'A380, l'A400-Mtout en avançant vite sur le programme A350-XWB).
  

• réaliser ses "vieux avions ravitailleurs" (vieille technologie, pour ce qui est de l'airframe et des moteurs P&W : séries PW 4060),
  
• prendre des décisions sur l'éventuel NSA / B797 (à partir d'une feuille blanche), pour contrer le NEO (même si ce prgramme NEO devait finir par être un feu de paille),
  
• se battre avec la montée en puissance de la production des B787, et de l'eventuelle adjonction de versions du genre B787-10 / -10X ,
  
• 
  
• peser les choix sur le remplacement du B777-300ER, tout en sachant que le marché sera sceptique sur toute tentative d'opération de 'réchauffement'/ "revamping " ("rewinged-tin-tube stretch"), surtout dans le sillage du bide qu'est le B747-8I, issu de ce type de "revamping" !
  
  

Jeannot a écrit:Concernant Hong Kong Airlines comment voyez vous la conclusion de cette affaire ?

Les fonctionnaires eurpéens ne devraient-ils pas donner un peu de marge de manoeuvre de manière à permettre aux un ou aux autres de ne pas perdre la face ?

SEVRIEN a écrit:Bonjour, chers tous. Merci, Jeannot.

Jeannot a écrit:Oui vous avez raison c'est très politique et je ne connais pas le dossier. Par contre je me permets simplement de souligner que le fait de pénaliser une entreprise pour une décision de l'UE n'est pas la bonne solution et surtout ouvre la porte à toute espèce d'abus. C'est même révoltant !

Il doit exister d'autres moyens de faire faire machine arrière à l'UE sur ce sujet ou du moins de porter la question devant une cour appropriée.

Le problème, à la fois pratique et juridique, est que, sauf décision négative (pour l'UE) , de la CEJ, par exemple, est qu'il quasiment impossible de faire en sorte que l'UE fasse "machine arrière".

Avis personnel :

• une exemption / exoneration n'est pas possible ;
  
• la Chine, et d'autres pays s'attendraient à un geste ;
  
• ce geste pourrait consister, par exemple, en un mécanisme de montée progressive étalée sur 5 ans vers le taux de "taxation" / "contribution" visé (5% du taux visé, pour la première année, 25% dudit taux pour l'année no. 2, pour, de 50% dudit taux pour l'année 3, 75% pour l'année 4 et 100% dudit taux pour l'année 5.
  

Ce processus de rattrapage ne durerait que le temps d'un mandat normal, ou un peu plus. Assez court pour que l'UE ne perde pas la face, et assez long pour permettre aux payeurs, et autres "râleurs" (IATA, par exemple) de s'y adapter sans trop de douleur, et de manière responsable !

L'oubli, et l'habitude feraient le reste ! ;)

Juste une idée ! Il y a surement mieux !

Réactions ?

Jeannot a écrit:Let's go ahead !!! Je n'aime pas la solution de type "Plan B" du 747-8. On ne remplace pas des pommes par des carottes !!!