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Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par Fragen Sam 18 Juil 2009, 19:43
Et pourrait être coupé en deux, politiquement plus acceptable
Mais, selon le ChicagoTribune, peut-être plus couteux.
C'est bien de faire de la prospective : à condition de savoir exactement de quoi seront faites le offres, surtout celle de Boeing !
Split could seal Air Force aerial-refueling tanker contract
Dividing $100 billion program between Boeing, Northrop-EADS seen as possible way to move forward
By Julie Johnsson | Tribune reporter July 19, 2009
Worth upward of $100 billion, the contract to supply the U.S. Air Force with hundreds of new aerial-refueling tankers will be among the largest ever awarded by the Pentagon.
It's already made its mark for controversy after three failed contests, an ethics scandal that ended with jail terms for Boeing Co. executives and countless skirmishes on Capitol Hill over jobs, free trade and patriotism.
Given the program's sordid history, many observers predict the tanker contest will culminate in a King Solomon-like solution of splitting purchases between rival bidders: Chicago-based Boeing and a consortium lead by California's Northrop Grumman Corp. and the France-based parent of Airbus SAS.
Such a compromise, potentially more costly and opposed by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, may be the only way to get the badly needed aircraft any time soon, analysts said.
U.S. Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), the powerful chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, is expected to provide greater detail of his vision for the tanker program this week. He is an advocate of splitting the contract and has paved the way for that outcome by tucking language into the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill that would allow the Pentagon to buy tankers from both contractors.
The House's $636.3 billion defense budget includes $440 million to fund tanker development. The House bill also encourages the Pentagon to purchase more than one aircraft per month, as it had once planned. Higher production rates would make splitting the contract financially feasible for Boeing and Northrop.
"The only way forward may be a joint buy," said aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia, "although I don't think anybody wants to admit that because it points to a politicized failure of the procurement system."
Gates had been expected to reveal the new tanker requirements this month, but pushed that off until after Labor Day. This means the contest won't wrap up before mid-2010 at the earliest, sources said.
But both parties might be open to a compromise.
"While we haven't been openly proposing it, we would support [joint winners] if it, indeed in this economic plight, allows us to get on with the job," said Paul Meyer, Northrop's vice president for air mobility systems and head of its tanker program. Boeing is open to any option presented by the government, including using dual contractors, said Boeing spokesman Bill Barksdale.
The Air Force urgently needs to begin replacing its fleet of KC-135 Stratotankers, Eisenhower-era planes that act as airborne gas stations. With an average age of 50, many of the 453 tankers in the U.S. fleet will need to have their
metal skins replaced because of metal fatigue over the next decade, overhauls that will cost billions of dollars, analysts said.
But in designing a request for proposal for their replacements, the Pentagon faces a Herculean task. It must figure out its aerial needs for the next quarter-century while determining how to deal with Congress, where intense political alliances have formed around the rival bids.
Gates favors another winner-take-all contest, like the version that ended in February 2008 with the Air Force awarding the initial $35 billion contract to Northrop and its partner, European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co., for a
tanker based on the Airbus A330-200.
Boeing, which had proposed a smaller, cheaper tanker based on its 767 jetliner, accused the Air Force of failing to follow its own rules, a finding later supported by Congress' investigative arm. Gates announced a second contest last
summer but then scrapped those plans, leaving the contentious decision to the next administration.
But the tanker conundrum remains his to resolve after Obama reappointed Gates to his Defense Department post.
"[T]here were a number of decisions, from the Air Force tanker program to several others, that last fall I punted to my successor, only to find myself on the 1-yard line, receiving," Gates quipped in a speech to a Chicago audience Thursday.
Reversing roles, Northrop heads into the next tanker contest as the favorite. Not only did its tanker win over Air Force procurement officials last year, but it has won every recent tanker contest held by other nations. The United Kingdom, Australia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are all customers, while India reportedly is set to announce that it is buying the Northrop-EADS plane too.
Boeing, meanwhile, has bolstered its bid by offering the Boeing 777-200ER if the Pentagon decides it wants a larger, long-range plane. While the 777's wingspan is just two feet wider than the A330's, its fuselage is considerably wider, enabling the Boeing plane to haul 23 percent more fuel and 44 percent more cargo than the Airbus jet, said Barksdale.
"If the Air Force wants an agile, flexible type of tanker, something suited for an austere, expeditionary-type environment, then the 767 is a proven wide-body ready to replace the KC-135," he added.
Either Boeing's or Northrop's aircraft would be far superior to the Air Force's current fleet. But analysts think that no matter which tanker the Pentagon chooses, the loser will find some grounds for appeal, with powerful political
supporters aiding its cause.
Boeing is backed by an unusual alliance of labor unions, Democrats and Kansas Republicans, since its planes would be assembled on production lines in Everett, Wash., and Wichita, Kan.
Northrop has strong support from the Alabama and Mississippi delegations, states that will gain jobs and investment from its planes, which would be assembled in Mobile, Ala. Northrop's bid also is backed by European governments, which might retaliate against U.S. defense contractors if the contest appears biased toward Boeing.
But while it might be politically convenient, Gates fears that splitting the contract would inflate the Air Force's costs, forcing it to establish separate supply chains and crew training for the Boeing and Northrop planes.
"It would mean a lot of expenses for the next many years that they don't have now," said Paul Nisbet, aerospace analyst with JSA Research. "I'd be surprised if they'd do it. But politics has won over economics many times
before."
The economics work, said defense analyst Loren Thompson, if the Pentagon accelerates its plans to replace its half-century-old tanker fleet as well as its fleet of 59 KC-10s, which haul cargo as well as fuel and at age 29 are
approaching the end of their natural service lives. That could bolster the case for buying two vastly different types of tankers.
Thompson also likes Murtha's proposal to spur competition over the life of the program. Both contractors would receive sufficient orders to cover manufacturing costs. But the company that best controlled spending and met deadlines would win extra orders awarded every few years.
"Aside from the politics, there are good operational and budgetary reasons for splitting the program," Thompson said.
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Et les KC 135 et C 135 vieilissent.....
Mais, selon le ChicagoTribune, peut-être plus couteux.
C'est bien de faire de la prospective : à condition de savoir exactement de quoi seront faites le offres, surtout celle de Boeing !
Split could seal Air Force aerial-refueling tanker contract
Dividing $100 billion program between Boeing, Northrop-EADS seen as possible way to move forward
By Julie Johnsson | Tribune reporter July 19, 2009
Worth upward of $100 billion, the contract to supply the U.S. Air Force with hundreds of new aerial-refueling tankers will be among the largest ever awarded by the Pentagon.
It's already made its mark for controversy after three failed contests, an ethics scandal that ended with jail terms for Boeing Co. executives and countless skirmishes on Capitol Hill over jobs, free trade and patriotism.
Given the program's sordid history, many observers predict the tanker contest will culminate in a King Solomon-like solution of splitting purchases between rival bidders: Chicago-based Boeing and a consortium lead by California's Northrop Grumman Corp. and the France-based parent of Airbus SAS.
Such a compromise, potentially more costly and opposed by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, may be the only way to get the badly needed aircraft any time soon, analysts said.
U.S. Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), the powerful chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, is expected to provide greater detail of his vision for the tanker program this week. He is an advocate of splitting the contract and has paved the way for that outcome by tucking language into the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill that would allow the Pentagon to buy tankers from both contractors.
The House's $636.3 billion defense budget includes $440 million to fund tanker development. The House bill also encourages the Pentagon to purchase more than one aircraft per month, as it had once planned. Higher production rates would make splitting the contract financially feasible for Boeing and Northrop.
"The only way forward may be a joint buy," said aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia, "although I don't think anybody wants to admit that because it points to a politicized failure of the procurement system."
Gates had been expected to reveal the new tanker requirements this month, but pushed that off until after Labor Day. This means the contest won't wrap up before mid-2010 at the earliest, sources said.
But both parties might be open to a compromise.
"While we haven't been openly proposing it, we would support [joint winners] if it, indeed in this economic plight, allows us to get on with the job," said Paul Meyer, Northrop's vice president for air mobility systems and head of its tanker program. Boeing is open to any option presented by the government, including using dual contractors, said Boeing spokesman Bill Barksdale.
The Air Force urgently needs to begin replacing its fleet of KC-135 Stratotankers, Eisenhower-era planes that act as airborne gas stations. With an average age of 50, many of the 453 tankers in the U.S. fleet will need to have their
metal skins replaced because of metal fatigue over the next decade, overhauls that will cost billions of dollars, analysts said.
But in designing a request for proposal for their replacements, the Pentagon faces a Herculean task. It must figure out its aerial needs for the next quarter-century while determining how to deal with Congress, where intense political alliances have formed around the rival bids.
Gates favors another winner-take-all contest, like the version that ended in February 2008 with the Air Force awarding the initial $35 billion contract to Northrop and its partner, European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co., for a
tanker based on the Airbus A330-200.
Boeing, which had proposed a smaller, cheaper tanker based on its 767 jetliner, accused the Air Force of failing to follow its own rules, a finding later supported by Congress' investigative arm. Gates announced a second contest last
summer but then scrapped those plans, leaving the contentious decision to the next administration.
But the tanker conundrum remains his to resolve after Obama reappointed Gates to his Defense Department post.
"[T]here were a number of decisions, from the Air Force tanker program to several others, that last fall I punted to my successor, only to find myself on the 1-yard line, receiving," Gates quipped in a speech to a Chicago audience Thursday.
Reversing roles, Northrop heads into the next tanker contest as the favorite. Not only did its tanker win over Air Force procurement officials last year, but it has won every recent tanker contest held by other nations. The United Kingdom, Australia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are all customers, while India reportedly is set to announce that it is buying the Northrop-EADS plane too.
Boeing, meanwhile, has bolstered its bid by offering the Boeing 777-200ER if the Pentagon decides it wants a larger, long-range plane. While the 777's wingspan is just two feet wider than the A330's, its fuselage is considerably wider, enabling the Boeing plane to haul 23 percent more fuel and 44 percent more cargo than the Airbus jet, said Barksdale.
"If the Air Force wants an agile, flexible type of tanker, something suited for an austere, expeditionary-type environment, then the 767 is a proven wide-body ready to replace the KC-135," he added.
Either Boeing's or Northrop's aircraft would be far superior to the Air Force's current fleet. But analysts think that no matter which tanker the Pentagon chooses, the loser will find some grounds for appeal, with powerful political
supporters aiding its cause.
Boeing is backed by an unusual alliance of labor unions, Democrats and Kansas Republicans, since its planes would be assembled on production lines in Everett, Wash., and Wichita, Kan.
Northrop has strong support from the Alabama and Mississippi delegations, states that will gain jobs and investment from its planes, which would be assembled in Mobile, Ala. Northrop's bid also is backed by European governments, which might retaliate against U.S. defense contractors if the contest appears biased toward Boeing.
But while it might be politically convenient, Gates fears that splitting the contract would inflate the Air Force's costs, forcing it to establish separate supply chains and crew training for the Boeing and Northrop planes.
"It would mean a lot of expenses for the next many years that they don't have now," said Paul Nisbet, aerospace analyst with JSA Research. "I'd be surprised if they'd do it. But politics has won over economics many times
before."
The economics work, said defense analyst Loren Thompson, if the Pentagon accelerates its plans to replace its half-century-old tanker fleet as well as its fleet of 59 KC-10s, which haul cargo as well as fuel and at age 29 are
approaching the end of their natural service lives. That could bolster the case for buying two vastly different types of tankers.
Thompson also likes Murtha's proposal to spur competition over the life of the program. Both contractors would receive sufficient orders to cover manufacturing costs. But the company that best controlled spending and met deadlines would win extra orders awarded every few years.
"Aside from the politics, there are good operational and budgetary reasons for splitting the program," Thompson said.
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Et les KC 135 et C 135 vieilissent.....
Fragen- CLUB
- Messages : 501
Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par Wax Dim 30 Aoû 2009, 17:00
Ré ouverture prochaine de l'appel d'offre.
Petite remise en jambe sur Al com, ce qui n'enlève rien aux posts très pertinents de l'un ou l'autre, ici ou ailleurs
------------------------
With a new round of competition set to begin in the next couple of weeks, officials with Northrop Grumman Corp. and Boeing Co. said they're eager to resume their battle for the U.S. Air Force's refueling tanker contract.
"This is a big one. And it's a big one for both sides," said Paul Meyer, head of Los Angeles-based Northrop's tanker program. "We're ready to get to it."
Top Air Force officials said last week they hope to reopen bidding on the potential $40 billion contract soon after lawmakers return to Washington, D.C., from their summer recess. Congress is scheduled to reconvene Sept. 8.
The stakes could not be much higher.
New tankers are the Air Force's top priority, and the contract ranks among the biggest ever awarded by the Pentagon. For Mobile, a win by Northrop and its bidding partner, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., would bring construction of a $600 million, 1,500-worker aircraft production plant.
)) For Chicago-based Boeing, a win would secure thousands of aircraft assembly jobs in Washington state and Kansas,
both hard-hit by the economic downturn. It also would keep the company's lock on the Air Force tanker business, a franchise it has held for nearly 50 years, and deal a blow to archrival Airbus.
)) Airbus, an EADS subsidiary, has announced plans to add assembly of commercial A330 freighters in Mobile, contingent on winning the tanker work. The facility would give Airbus a long-sought foothold on U.S. soil and establish a Southern center of aircraft production to rival Boeing's operations in the Pacific Northwest.
"This competition is a top priority for Boeing," said spokesman Bill Barksdale.
"It's significant because we feel it is a long-term business for us, and we want to keep it."
Northrop and Boeing waged a fierce, politically charged contest for the contract last year. Northrop, offering a larger, more capable tanker based on an Airbus A330 jet, shocked observers by beating Boeing and its smaller KC-767, which had been heavily favored to win.
The contract for 179 planes was designed to be the first of three phases to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of more than 500 KC-135 Stratotankers, which average nearly 50 years in service and are becoming increasingly costly to operate.
The deal unraveled last fall after federal auditors, acting on a protest filed by Boeing, found problems with the way the Air Force conducted its evaluation. That led Defense Secretary Robert Gates to order a new competition beginning this year.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Petite remise en jambe sur Al com, ce qui n'enlève rien aux posts très pertinents de l'un ou l'autre, ici ou ailleurs
------------------------
With a new round of competition set to begin in the next couple of weeks, officials with Northrop Grumman Corp. and Boeing Co. said they're eager to resume their battle for the U.S. Air Force's refueling tanker contract.
"This is a big one. And it's a big one for both sides," said Paul Meyer, head of Los Angeles-based Northrop's tanker program. "We're ready to get to it."
Top Air Force officials said last week they hope to reopen bidding on the potential $40 billion contract soon after lawmakers return to Washington, D.C., from their summer recess. Congress is scheduled to reconvene Sept. 8.
The stakes could not be much higher.
New tankers are the Air Force's top priority, and the contract ranks among the biggest ever awarded by the Pentagon. For Mobile, a win by Northrop and its bidding partner, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., would bring construction of a $600 million, 1,500-worker aircraft production plant.
)) For Chicago-based Boeing, a win would secure thousands of aircraft assembly jobs in Washington state and Kansas,
both hard-hit by the economic downturn. It also would keep the company's lock on the Air Force tanker business, a franchise it has held for nearly 50 years, and deal a blow to archrival Airbus.
)) Airbus, an EADS subsidiary, has announced plans to add assembly of commercial A330 freighters in Mobile, contingent on winning the tanker work. The facility would give Airbus a long-sought foothold on U.S. soil and establish a Southern center of aircraft production to rival Boeing's operations in the Pacific Northwest.
"This competition is a top priority for Boeing," said spokesman Bill Barksdale.
"It's significant because we feel it is a long-term business for us, and we want to keep it."
Northrop and Boeing waged a fierce, politically charged contest for the contract last year. Northrop, offering a larger, more capable tanker based on an Airbus A330 jet, shocked observers by beating Boeing and its smaller KC-767, which had been heavily favored to win.
The contract for 179 planes was designed to be the first of three phases to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of more than 500 KC-135 Stratotankers, which average nearly 50 years in service and are becoming increasingly costly to operate.
The deal unraveled last fall after federal auditors, acting on a protest filed by Boeing, found problems with the way the Air Force conducted its evaluation. That led Defense Secretary Robert Gates to order a new competition beginning this year.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Wax- CLUB
- Messages : 1387
Localisation : Pas loin
Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par Wax Dim 30 Aoû 2009, 17:01
Wax- CLUB
- Messages : 1387
Localisation : Pas loin
Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par Wax Dim 30 Aoû 2009, 17:03
Wax- CLUB
- Messages : 1387
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Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par Questar Mer 02 Sep 2009, 12:17
Merci Jeannot.
Ah, bon. On suppose que NG.EADS proposera un A 350 MRTT.....
Pat Murray raye le parquet avec ses dents
Ah, bon. On suppose que NG.EADS proposera un A 350 MRTT.....
Pat Murray raye le parquet avec ses dents
Questar- CLUB
- Messages : 3178
Re: TANKER USAF - Appels d'offres
par vanDer. Mar 15 Sep 2009, 08:02
Boeing balancerait entre 767 et 777.
Et bien, comme tout le monde, attendons le RFP
Sur le site Nouvelobs :
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Boeing ne prévoit pas d'apporter des modifications importantes à ses modèles 767 et 777 pour l'appel d'offres à venir pour le contrat géant des avions ravitailleurs de l'armée de l'air américaine, a déclaré un dirigeant du groupe.
Rick Lemaster, en charge du dossier chez Boeing, a déclaré à des journalistes attendre le cahier des charges définitif de l'US Air Force avant de décider s'il participerait à l'appel d'offres avec le 767 ou le 777.
Il s'exprimait lors d'une conférence de presse à l'occasion d'une réunion de l'Air Force Association à Washington.
Boeing est déterminé à tirer les leçons de l'échec subi lors de la première procédure organisée pour attribuer ce contrat de 179 appareils, estimé à 35 milliards de dollars.
Le Pentagone avait alors attribué le contrat au tandem formé par EADS, la maison mère d'Airbus, et le groupe américain Northrop Grumman mais sa décision avait par la suite été annulée.
Boeing avait participé à la procédure initiale avec une version modifiée de son 767 car il était convaincu que l'Air Force ne voulait pas du 777.
Le Pentagone met actuellement la dernière main à la rédaction du cahier des charges du nouvel appel d'offres, qui marquera la troisième tentative depuis 2001 de remplacer la flotte actuelle de ravitailleurs, composée de KC-135
vieillissants.
Il n'a toutefois pas fixé la date de la publication de ce cahier des charges.
Andrea Shalal-Esa, version française Marc Angrand
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Et bien, comme tout le monde, attendons le RFP
Sur le site Nouvelobs :
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Boeing ne prévoit pas d'apporter des modifications importantes à ses modèles 767 et 777 pour l'appel d'offres à venir pour le contrat géant des avions ravitailleurs de l'armée de l'air américaine, a déclaré un dirigeant du groupe.
Rick Lemaster, en charge du dossier chez Boeing, a déclaré à des journalistes attendre le cahier des charges définitif de l'US Air Force avant de décider s'il participerait à l'appel d'offres avec le 767 ou le 777.
Il s'exprimait lors d'une conférence de presse à l'occasion d'une réunion de l'Air Force Association à Washington.
Boeing est déterminé à tirer les leçons de l'échec subi lors de la première procédure organisée pour attribuer ce contrat de 179 appareils, estimé à 35 milliards de dollars.
Le Pentagone avait alors attribué le contrat au tandem formé par EADS, la maison mère d'Airbus, et le groupe américain Northrop Grumman mais sa décision avait par la suite été annulée.
Boeing avait participé à la procédure initiale avec une version modifiée de son 767 car il était convaincu que l'Air Force ne voulait pas du 777.
Le Pentagone met actuellement la dernière main à la rédaction du cahier des charges du nouvel appel d'offres, qui marquera la troisième tentative depuis 2001 de remplacer la flotte actuelle de ravitailleurs, composée de KC-135
vieillissants.
Il n'a toutefois pas fixé la date de la publication de ce cahier des charges.
Andrea Shalal-Esa, version française Marc Angrand
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
vanDer.- CLUB
- Messages : 717
