RUMEURS de Commandes

Jeannot a écrit:Je ne suis pas certain que, si demande d'AF/KLM i l y a eu, elle se serait pas limitée, du moins dans un premier temps, à réaliser soi-même l'entretien de ses propres appareils et ainsi d'éviter à devoir le faire réaliser par des filiales de compagnies que le groupe pourrait considérer comme des concurrents majeurs. Bien sur cette démarche demanderait alors un investissement en formation et sans doute équipements.

• "OK ! Au lieu de vous faire des rabais de 85% au moment de l'achat de vos moteurs, on va vous facturer les 50 "ship-sets" à US$ 50 millions par ship-set, moins 20% de rabais, "cash at front end", pour tenir compte de votre volonté de former une JV avec nous, comme nous et nos autres partenaires avons pu faire dans le passé! Aussi, vous signerez un accord TotalCare de 10 ans, ..... "cash paid at front end", dans des conditions de 50% du tarif normal, pour vous être agréable et vous permettre de financer les équipements de base qui seront nécessaires. Ensuite, on 'roulera' au coup par coup, pour les choses exceptionnelles, avec , par exemple, pour les chioses routinières, chaque année, un GRA ("General Relations Agreement") des accords dits de RDA / RTA ("Research & Development Assessment" / "Research & Technology Assessment") .... selon des coéfficients et assiettes de calcul à déterminer d'un commun accord. En contre-partie, on vous transfère la technologie, de manière permanente, les évolutions et mises-à-jour des éléments "State of the Art", pour que notre JV soit "au top" dans le MRO, avec les autres JV que nous avons montées et développées avec nos autres partenaiores traditionnels ! ", .......
  

Jeannot a écrit:il est probable qu'AF/KLM aurait souhaité pouvoir offrir un service aux compagnies qui le souhaiteraient et qui préfèreraient travailler avec le groupe. La question des pénalités perdrait alors tout son sens.

Jeannot a écrit:Mais toute cette discussion s'appuie sur une hypothèse (la demande d'AF/KLM) dont nous ne savons pas si elle est fondée ou appartient au domaine des élucubrations de journalistes. Alors...

Thai Airways International will acquire eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners and 12 Airbus A350s as part of a 37-aircraft acquisition worth Thai baht (Bt) 119 billion ($3.89 billion).
The Star Alliance carrier's board approved the planned acquisition today, said the airline, adding that it will proceed to acquire the aircraft immediately.
Thai plans to purchase 15 aircraft and acquire the remaining 22 on operating leases. It will purchase six Boeing 777-300ERs, to be delivered in 2014 and 2015, four Airbus A350-900s (2016 and 2017) and five Airbus A320-200s (2014 and 2015).
It also plans to acquire six 787-8s and two 787-9s from US lessor International Lease Finance (ILFC) on operating leases. The -8s will be delivered in 2014 and 2015, while the -9s will be delivered in 2017.
In addition, Thai will lease six A350-900s from Aviation Lease and Finance, to be delivered in 2017, and two A350-900s from CIT Aerospace International, which will deliver the aircraft in 2016.
The airline will also lease six A320-200s from RBS Aerospace International, to be delivered in 2012 and 2013.
All the operating leases have terms of 12 years each, said Thai.

The 15-aircraft purchase is estimated to cost Bt49.5 billion, while the aircraft leases are worth Bt69.1 billion, it added.

Thai said the new aircraft acquisition would help it develop a modern, efficient and safe fleet. "In addition, acquiring new aircraft which are made from lightweight and non-corrosive composite materials to replace retiring aircraft will save fuel and maintenance cost," it added.

• 6 777-300ERs achetés
  
• 4 350-900s achetés
  
• 5 320-200 achetés
  
• 6 787-8 en crédit bail auprès de ILFC
  
• 2 787-9 en crédit bail auprès de ILFC
  
• 6 350-900s loués auprès de Aviation Lease and Finance
  
• 2 350-900s loués auprès de CIT Aerospace International
  
• 6 A320-200 loués auprès de RBS Aerospace Limited
  

Thai Air confirme la commande de 37 avions à Airbus et Boeing

La compagnie aérienne Thai Airways International a annoncé lundi avoir approuvé l'achat de 37 nouveaux appareils pour 118,6 milliards de bahts (3,9 milliards d'euros) sur la période 2011-2017.
Quinze de ces avions seront achetés pour un montant de 49,5 milliards de bahts, tandis que les 22 autres seront acquis au moyen d'un accord de crédit-bail pour environ 69 milliards de bahts.
La commande a, comme prévu, été répartie entre Boeing , avec 14 avions des gammes 777 et 787, et Airbus , avec 23 appareils des séries 350 et 320.
Le lot de quinze appareils comprendra six Boeing 777-300ER, livrables entre 2014 et 2015, quatre Airbus 350-900 livrables entre 2016 et 2017, et cinq Airbus 320-200 livrables entre 2014 et 2015.
Thai Airways prévoit en outre d'acheter en crédit-bail à International Lease Finance Corporation six Boeing 787-8 livrables entre 2014 et 2015, et deux Boeing 787-9 livrables en 2017.
Six A350-900 livrables entre 2016 et 2017 seront loués à Aviation Lease and Finance, et deux autres à CIT Aerospace International.
Enfin, six A320-200 seront loués à RBS Aerospace Limited à partir de 2012-2013.
Ces 22 commandes en crédit-bail seront échelonnées sur douze ans.
Thai Air est valorisée à 2,1 milliards de dollars, et appartient à l'Etat thaïlandais à hauteur de 51%.

French parliamentarians have launched a petition calling on Air France-KLM to place a USD$20 billion - USD$25 billion plane order with Airbus and not Boeing -- but airline officials said they would split the order.

Bernard Carayon, a member of President Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling conservative UMP party, who claims authorship of the popular term "economic patriotism" to defend French firms, said he had collected signatures from 102 members of parliament.

"When the Americans buy American, Europeans should buy European," said Carayon, whose list of signatories amounts to more than one in six members of the lower National Assembly.

Mais .... ! ?

Air France-KLM is negotiating with Boeing and Airbus and their engine makers after launching a tender for 100 mid-sized Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 jets to renew its long-haul fleet.

The order for the latest carbon-composite aircraft is seen as one of the biggest industry battles in the coming year.
Airline officials said the contract would be designed according to the needs of the group's two main networks and would probably be split between Boeing and Airbus.

"My view is that at some point in the future, both types of aircraft will be flying on both of our networks," Peter Hartman, chief executive of Dutch carrier KLM said.

Air France and KLM merged in 2004 to form Europe's largest airline by revenues but they kept separate networks and brands.

Historically, KLM has tended to buy Boeing aircraft and Air France has a mixed fleet with emphasis on Boeing for long trips.
Asked whether the Air France-KLM group would miss out on the best price by stating in advance that it was ready to split the order, Hartman said: "Half of 100 is still a lot of planes."

A final decision is not expected for several months.

Carayon's intervention is unlikely to have an immediate impact on the negotiations but is seen as an early warning of the potentially volatile backdrop to the deal as employment once again looks set to dominate French elections due in 2012.

Certainss disent que Bernard CARAYON et le France auraient plus d'impact dans ce genre d'exercice, s'ils décidaient de se montrer plus "européens", et de parler davantage des intérêts des acteurs de l'UE, plutôt que de ceux de la France, seule !

Aerospace is a major source of high-tech jobs in France.

Aircraft industry executives say plane orders such as this one tend to trigger intense lobbying from both sides of the Atlantic, often dragging in the heads of respective governments.

The contest is also happening as the United States and European Union draw towards the close of the world's largest trade battle involving mutual allegations of aircraft subsidies.

Any sign of interference in the Air France-KLM deal will likely be seized on by Boeing as evidence of unfair competition.

The French government owns 15.7 percent of Air France-KLM and 15 percent of Airbus parent company EADS.
Airbus and Boeing are the world's only manufacturers of aircraft in the 250-300 seat class targeted by Air France-KLM. They face the threat of new competition from China, Canada, Russia and Brazil for their best-selling smaller models.
Airbus has sold 2,894 planes to North America in its 40-year history, according to data on the company's website. Over the same period, Boeing has sold 4,100 planes to Europe including to Air France and traditional Boeing buyer British Airways.

(Reuters)

Que pensent nos Forumistes de ce genre de "patriotisme économique" ? [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

• (car c'est Hong Kong Airlines lui-même qui 'cause', ... non pas les scribouillards ... ) ;
  
• ..... il s'agit d'une commande ferme d'A380-800, qui sera passée au Salon du Bourget.
  

Hong Kong Airlines plans to place an order for [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] aircraft at next week's Paris Air Show, and could acquire up to six of the superjumbos.

An airline spokeswoman, who confirmed the plan, declined to disclose further details until the signing ceremony at the show. However, a senior airline official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the carrier could order "five or six" A380s.

"The best airlines in the world operate A380s, so if we want to be one of the best, we need to add the A380 to our fleet," he said.

Hong Kong Airlines, whose parent is China's HNA Group, is still finalising the details of the aircraft order, he added.
The airline plans to use the superjumbos to launch flights to new destinations like London and New York, said the official.

HNA Group plans to further develop Hong Kong Airlines into a bigger player in its market, and in March signed a memorandum of understanding for 38 [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] aircraft for the carrier. These comprise 30 [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]-9s, six 777 freighters and two 787-8s in VIP configuration

SEVRIEN a écrit:Merci, Jeannot et T_Har, pour ces posts.
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......"SUH is back" !
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Ce qui est intéressant, aussi, est le fait que les opérations sur les MC de la famille A320 concernent les "Legacy" !
.....
Les gens pressés ne vont pas attendre 2016 / 2017 pour les NEO !
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D'ailleurs, on peut commencer à se demander, "Quelle est la vraie valeur, la véracité, ..... la 'réalisabilité' des commandes (leurs livraisons) du style de 150 à 200 x A320-NEO pour Indigo & Air Asia" ?

A-t-on déjà oublié la folie des "sub-prime mortgages", de la "bulle Internet" etc ?
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Les réactions de nos Forumistes nous intéressent !

(PARIS, 14 juin (Reuters) - Le directeur général d'AirAsia, Tony Fernandes n'a pas voulu se prononcer mardi sur l'état d'avancement d'une commande d'Airbus.
L'homme d'affaires malaisien, qui gère la compagnie AirAsia, est en négociation pour l'achat d'au moins 150 A320neo .
Prié de dire si l'opération serait prête pour le salon aéronautique du Bourget la semaine prochaine, Fernandes a déclaré : "Je n'ai pas encore retenu de vol pour la France. La balle est dans le camp d'Airbus. Nous avons poussé cet avion et applaudi Airbus. Attendons de voir ce qui va se passer."
(Tim Hepher, Danielle Rouquié pour le service français, édité par Wilfrid Exbrayat)

Quelle baraque, Tony FERNANDES, veut-il casser ?

Qu'est-ce qu'il veut ? Y a-t-il "un os" ?

Cathay Pacific va commander environ 15 avions cargo

Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (0293.HK) a l'intention de commander de l'ordre de 15 avions cargo pour répondre à la demande au-delà de 2013, rapporte mercredi le South China Morning Post, qui cite le directeur de l'activité fret, Nick Rhodes.

Cathay pourrait signer le premier contrat dès le mois prochain, précise le journal en citant N.Rhodes. L'article ajoute que la compagnie aérienne est en discussion avec Airbus et Boeing Co. (BA), ainsi qu'avec des motoristes.
Cathay s'intéresse à trois modèles d'avions, l'Airbus A330, le Boeing 777 et le Boeing 747-8, précise l'article, en ajoutant que l'Airbus A330 et le Boeing 777 serviraient le réseau cargo moyen courrier et le Boeing 747, le réseau cargo long courrier.
La compagnie aérienne aurait besoin d'augmenter sa capacité de deux à trois avions cargo par an, la croissance mondiale des volumes de fret étant attendue entre 6% et 7% par an au cours des prochaines années, a également indiqué N.Rhodes, selon le journal.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] is to be the launch customer for the CFM International Leap-X powerplant for its [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] A320neo twinjets.It will put the engines on 30 A320neos, delivery of which is scheduled to start in 2016.

Virgin America has also chosen the [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] to power another 30 baseline A320s on order.

It values the combined agreement at $1.4 billion.

Virgin America's deal marks the first order for the Leap-X, the rival to the [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] PW1100G on the A320neo which has already been selected by several customers.

"Choosing Leap gives us the best of all worlds - the most advanced technology, significant fuel savings, consistency with our current fleet and the reliability of CFM," said Virgin America chief David Cush.

Le motoriste franco-américain CFM International va annoncer des commandes importantes au salon du Bourget pour son nouveau moteur, le Leap, a annoncé mercredi son PDG Jean-Paul Ebanga, après avoir remporté un premier contrat pour équiper des Airbus A320 Neo.

Catthay Pacific to announce orders for 14 777F, 747-8F at next week's Paris Air Show.

Jeannot a écrit:Sur : [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Catthay Pacific to announce orders for 14 777F, 747-8F at next week's Paris Air Show.

Cathay Pacific devrait annoncer la commande de 14 freighters (777F et 747-8F) au Bourget

A confirmer car pas dans les habitudes de Cathay Pacific selon Sevrien

Après tout, il aurait très bien pu attendre le Bourget pour faire l'annonce de la commande ferme des A350-XWB-900 ! :lol:

• AF-KLM choisira l'A350-XWB d'Airbus.
  
• Et il n'est pas impossible , dans la chronologie des événements, qu'il puisse faire ce choix, en donnant toutes les précisions d'usage (dans ce genre d'opération) avant de se déterminer sur une quelconque commande de B787 .
  
• Jusqu'à nouvel ordre, AF-KLM sera obligé de prendre la motorisation RR.
  
• C'est RR, et ni Airbus, ni le Gouvernement français, ni le Gouvernement britannique, ni l'UE, ni la Cour Européenne de Justice -- aucune de ces parties ; aucune -- qui déterminera le principe et l'architecture de base de la relation conractuelle entre AF et RR, sur une quelconque composante de cette relation contractuelle, et ce, notamment, dans le contexte de l'activité MRO-Moteurs !
  

Nos Forumistes ont des connaissances bien plus détaillées, plus poussées, et des informations bien plus profondes sur ces aspects, que les détails que l'on trouve dans les media.

Formula 1's Team Lotus announced a sponsorship deal with General Electric that deepens links between the US industrial group and a business empire that includes Asia's largest budget airline.

GE will join the Anglo-Malaysian racing team as a "Premium Partner" and its branding will appear on Team Lotus racing cars starting from the British Grand Prix in July.
"We have done well with the budget so far and this gives us a little bit extra," team principal Tony Fernandes told reporters.
"It will bring us money for an extra upgrade but really 2012 is where we will see the benefits of having GE on board. It is not just about money but about technology expertise."

The sponsorship tie-up with GE comes as Fernandes, who is also chief executive of AirAsia, puts the finishing touches on a potentially massive order for up to 200 Airbus planes for the Malaysian carrier.
The prospect of an aircraft order worth between USD$13 billion and USD$17 billion has sparked a fierce battle between engine makers including GE to supply hundreds of jet engines for the expanded AirAsia fleet.

The sponsorship deal underscored predictions by industry sources last week that GE would grab the engine order, after losing a string of similar deals to Pratt & Whitney.

But while he expects his motor racing and aviation interests to mesh in coming years, Fernandes refused to commit to handing the coveted order to GE and its French partner Safran.
"That deal is in the next few weeks and we are still discussing. It has to be a separate discussion but the relationship has been very good," he said in an interview.

"They both have good products," he said of the two engine makers, adding that after-sales service would be a key factor.

Fernandes said he expected to see increasing collaboration between Formula 1, with its emphasis on advanced composites and aerodynamics, and aviation.
"Until recently the brains in Formula 1 were focused on fast cars and we came along and said let's use some of those to bring commercial ventures to the aviation world."

Possible spin-offs for aviation include energy recovery and composite structures that make planes lighter, he said.
The deal will "without a doubt" help with development of KERS, which recovers energy from braking, Fernandes said.
Fernandes, a Malaysian entrepreneur who transformed a small carrier into one of Airbus's largest customers, is negotiating to buy at least 150 new medium-haul aircraft called A320neo from the European plane maker complete with fuel-saving engines.
Asked whether the deal would be ready for the Paris Air Show next week, Fernandes said, "I haven't booked any flights to France just yet. The ball is in their (Airbus's) court. We pushed this aircraft and applaud Airbus, and let's see what happens."

(Reuters)

Philippines - Cebu annonce une commande d'Airbus de $3,8 mds

La compagnie à bas coûts philippine Cebu Air a annoncé jeudi avoir conclu un accord de 3,8 milliards de dollars avec Airbus, portant sur une commande de 30 A321 et de sept A320.
Devant des journalistes, le directeur général du groupe Lance Gokongwei a déclaré que la livraison des avions devrait intervenir entre 2015 et 2021.
La commande vient en plus de 18 A320 commandés précédemment, dont la livraison aura lieu entre le second semestre de cette année et 2014.
Cebu Air est une division du conglomérat philippin JG Summit Holdings .

Air France-KLM has won assurances from a senior French minister that it will be allowed to make its own “independent” choice about whether to spend tens of billions of dollars buying new passenger jets from Airbus or Boeing.

The Franco-Dutch airline has in the past week come under increasing pressure from French lawmakers, and at least one minister, to place an entire order for 100 new long-range aircraft – one of the biggest anticipated purchases in the industry – with Europe’s Airbus rather than Boeing of the US.

The campaign, which has won the backing of almost 150 legislators, has tapped into resurgent public support in France for “economic patriotism”. French lawmakers are still angry about a multibillion-dollar US contract for a fleet of air refuelling tankers, which was originally handed to Toulouse-based Airbus before being taken away and awarded instead to Boeing.

But on Wednesday, François Baroin, the French budget minister and ally of Nicolas Sarkozy, the country’s president, stepped into the dispute to stress that the government and the company were required to abide by global free trade rules.

“We are in a state of law with European rules and global rules with the [World Trade Organisation],” Mr Baroin said. However, he added that the French government would remain “attentive” to the new order.

His comments came on the same day that Henri Gourgeon, the Air France-KLM chief executive, was called into a meeting with Pierre Lellouche, a French export minister, to “explain” what was going on with the order.

Mr Lellouche had indicated on Tuesday that the French state was looking for something in return for the strong support it has offered to the airline in the past. The French government is the airline’s biggest single shareholder with a stake of 15.7 per cent.

Air France-KLM welcomed the intervention by Mr Baroin on Wednesday. Company insiders said they hoped to get on with making a decision based on technical merit, rather than national pressure.

A company spokesman said the Dutch partners in the airline were also eager for an “independent” decision on the purchase, which will be the first large joint order since Air France and KLM of the Netherlands merged in 2004.

.......
Company officials have been examining the rival merits of Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner and Airbus A350 for about a year, and will base the decision on factors such as fuel economy and delivery dates. Analysts expect the order to be divided between the two suppliers.

Bernard Carayon, a member of Mr Sarkozy’s ruling conservative UMP party, who is leading the parliamentary campaign, has said: “When the Americans buy American, Europeans should buy European.”

Jeannot a écrit:Philippines - Cebu annonce une commande d'Airbus de $3,8 mds

Philippines - Cebu annonce une commande d'Airbus de $3,8 mds

La compagnie à bas coûts philippine Cebu Air a annoncé jeudi avoir conclu un accord de 3,8 milliards de dollars avec Airbus, portant sur une commande de 30 A321 et de sept A320.
Devant des journalistes, le directeur général du groupe Lance Gokongwei a déclaré que la livraison des avions devrait intervenir entre 2015 et 2021.
La commande vient en plus de 18 A320 commandés précédemment, dont la livraison aura lieu entre le second semestre de cette année et 2014.
Cebu Air est une division du conglomérat philippin JG Summit Holdings .

Voici la commande annoncée. Juste à temps pour... Le Bourget

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Cebu Pacific orders 30 A321neos, firms seven A320 options

Philippine low-cost carrier Cebu Pacific has placed a firm order for 30 Airbus A321neo aircraft with 10 options, and firmed up options for an additional seven A320s.
The 37 firm aircraft orders will cost $3.8 billion at list prices, said the airline. It expects to take delivery of the aircraft between 2015 and 2021.
Cebu Pacific has not made an engine selection between the CFM International Leap-X and Pratt & Whitney PW1100G for the A321neo. The airline's existing fleet of A320 family aircraft are all powered by CFM International CFM56 engines

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Cebu Pacific has made the largest firm order for the Airbus A321neo aircraft in the world. These 220-seater aircraft will be a real 'game changer' for Cebu Pacific because the A321neo will have a much longer range. We will be able to serve cities in Australia, India and Northern Japan, places the A320 cannot reach," said the airline's CEO and president Lance Gokongwei.
The order will more than double its fleet and triple its capacity, said Cebu Pacific. It operates 33 aircraft, comprising 25 A320s and eight ATR turboprop aircraft. It also has 18 more A320s on order, to be delivered from the second half of 2011 until 2014. With the new order, the airline's total firm orders will increase to 55.
Gokongwei said the A321neos will reduce the airline's unit cost per seat "to a level that cannot be achieved flying A320s".